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The second season of the FX series The Bear (available to stream at Hulu) sees Carmen “Carmy” Berzatto (Jeremy Allen White) and the staff of the grimy Chicago sandwich joint that they’re holding together with duct tape and prayers attempting to transform the space into a food joint worthy of a Michelin star. But stripping things down only to build them up anew forces them onto their own journeys of self-discovery, as they juggle the ever-growing list of tasks that includes permits, contractors, menu planning, and figuring out where they each individually fit into it all, while the clock to reopen ticks and the pressure mounts.
During this 1-on-1 interview with Collider, Ebon Moss-Bachrach (who plays Richard “Richie” Jerimovich, the impulsive but well-meaning best friend of Carmy’s late brother, who’s just trying to fit into the quickly changing world around him) talked about whether he kept that Original Berf collector’s item t-shirt, what it’s been like to hear feedback from chefs and native Chicagoans, how much he knows about the arc of the season ahead of time, why it was surprisingly emotional to return to sets that were in flux, the advantage that comes with having showrunners who also direct the episodes, how Richie fits into Season 2, the special father-daughter relationship, how Taylor Swift fits in, and how much they’re able to experiment with everything. He also talked about what it was like to be a part of Andor, and what most surprised him about making the series.
Collider: Everybody is in a different place in Season 2, and I’m very curious to see how that plays out.
EBON MOSS-BACHRACH: That’s a good sign. It feels like everyone is trying to move to a different place, but I don’t think they’re quite there.
Did you get to keep the Original Berf t-shirt? With it being a collector’s item, did you get to have it?
MOSS-BACHRACH: Yeah, and I got a small one, too, that I gave to my daughter. It feels a bit much for me to wear The Bear swag, but my little daughter loves it. She wears her Original Berf shirt a lot. It’s really inside baseball.
I read that you spent some time in Chicago, after the first season came out. What was it like to receive the reaction that people had to the show, both from chefs and from people from Chicago? Obviously, you want everyone to like whatever project you’re doing, but with this show, chefs and people from Chicago seem like they’d move to the front of the line, as far as hoping they like the show. What was it like to experience their reaction, first hand, once the show was out and you were hearing from people?
MOSS-BACHRACH: For the most part, it’s really validating. First of all, people that come up to me are usually into the show. I know there are people in the restaurant industry and people from Chicago that take issue with the show, but fortunately, those are not the people that come up to me. When you try to shine a light on something and make a show about something, like making a show about the restaurant industry in Chicago, it feels amazing to have Chicagoans and people that work in restaurants be like, “Yo, thank you. You got it.” Obviously, that’s validating. And then, who doesn’t like to get a free plate of calamari or another martini sent over, from a grateful bartender. That’s awesome. I live in New York, and New York is very cool and people are a little bit more restrained. I feel like in Chicago, people are quick to give a big high-five or a, “What’s up, Cousin?” No one’s been like, “You suck!” I’m hoping it continues. Maybe because we’re rebuilding the restaurant in the second season, I’ll get free renovations. Contractors will be like, “I’ll put a new bathtub in for you, on the house. I’ve got you.”
When it comes to the show, how much do you know about what the season will be, going into it? Were you given a full season arc? Do you not want to know what every beat will be, too far ahead of time?
MOSS-BACHRACH: I have an understanding of the entire arc of the series. I know the basic skeleton for the whole thing. So, I knew, even before the scripts were really written, what Season 2 was gonna be like, in a very general way. I definitely wanna know. The more I know before, the better because then I have more time to sit with stuff. If I have questions, it gives me more time to ask questions. If some things feel like they need to be rewritten a little bit, there’s more time for discussion about why it should or why it shouldn’t be rewritten, and whether maybe it’s my own issues. It gives me time to figure it out. So, yeah, I like to know. Knowledge is power.
In the first four episodes that I’ve seen, there is no restaurant. They’re trying to figure things out and get everything ready, and they definitely need some inspiration. How did it feel to start back up and not be working in the kitchen? How did it feel to start in the place that they start in?
MOSS-BACHRACH: It was surprisingly emotional because the stuff we did shoot on the old set was demolition. We were literally breaking down this place that we really had a very magical few months in, last year I have scenes with some kind of power tool. I’m not gonna pretend like I know what it was. But I’m cutting through the drywall and knocking stuff down and literally taking a sledgehammer through stuff. It was kind of a bummer. I loved that place.
They didn’t need a demolition crew because they could just have the actors take the set down.
MOSS-BACHRACH: Yeah, exactly. Actors are good at breaking things.
Aside from the one-off episode that Ramy Youssef directed, your co-showrunners, Christopher Storer and Joanna Calo, directed everything else. What’s it like to have them be your directors, as well? Does it really create a space to play, as a cast, when you’re directed by the people who know the show better than probably anyone else?
MOSS-BACHRACH: Yeah. I’ve worked on a lot of TV shows, and the shows where the writers and showrunners are there, are one hundred percent better, every single time, than the shows where they’re not available. When they’re off somewhere, it creates a vacuum. You don’t understand what’s going on. With Girls, whether you liked it or not, Jenni Konner and Lena Dunham were there, all the time, and we are able to work things out and ask questions. So much has to change on the day, so if somebody’s not around, it’s really, really hard. With The Bear, it’s a very small set, and whether it’s Chris or Joanna, the line between writer and director is blurred and they’re just like a friend there who’s giving guidance, and it feels very informal and alive and playful.
Ramy Youssef must have been so nervous, coming in to just do one episode.
MOSS-BACHRACH: I’m in his episode a little bit. I didn’t really work with Ramy, but I know that he was nervous. Chris has directed and produced Ramy, and our producer, Tyson Bidner, also produced Ramy. So, he’s like family, too. He wasn’t just some gun for hire that had to get parachuted in, or whatever.
With everything, at least at the beginning of Season 2, feeling like it’s in a transition, and like everybody’s trying to learn something and evolve, in some way, how is Richie feeling about everything that’s going on around him? Does he want to learn and grow? Would he rather things stay the way he’s known them to be? How does he feel about change?
MOSS-BACHRACH: Without giving away too much, the first season, he’s very resistant to change. He wants to preserve his world and the world that The Beef is in. And then, he loses and he’s forced to change. To me, Richie has a good heart and is trying. It’s difficult, but he has a desire and a need to remain in that family, and he’ll do what he has to do to stay in the family of that restaurant.
Do you think that he’s jealous of Carmy at all, or is it more just the fact that he feels out of his depth?
MOSS-BACHRACH: No, I don’t think that Richie is jealous of Carmy. Most of the time, to Richie, Carmy is a stupid enigma. Richie is somebody that really likes to connect and be with people, and he’s fiercely loyal and compassionate, in his own way. Carmy is a real outlier. Carmy is introspective and hard to reach and antisocial and in his head and neurotic, and Richie definitely recognizes that. From my point of view, I don’t think there’s anything there that he’s jealous of, except for the last name.
What exactly does Richie think he’s the supervisor of? How would he describe his place in the world of this show?
MOSS-BACHRACH: I think he would probably say that he’s a manager. He’s the forward-facing element, although I don’t think he’d use that kind of business speak. Over the course of any day in a restaurant, so many things can go wrong and it just needs constant supervision, and he’s like 9-1-1.
How many times did you have to shoot that moment with the ceiling falling on you, and the stuff falling out and hitting you on the head? Do you just get one shot to do something like that?
MOSS-BACHRACH: We did it twice. It was a long reset. It took us 45 minutes to put all the stuff back there. The one that made it is the second one. I think it really works beautifully. The timing of that last ball was incredible. Originally, I pitched them something I thought would be really great. Loathe as I would have been to do it, but I thought it would be amazing, if just a bunch of live rats and mice fell down, and then ran away, and everyone freaked out. I thought that would be incredible and shocking. I really didn’t wanna do it, but I would have done it for the sake of the scene. They humored me. I don’t know if they just lied and told me they did, but they said they ran it up at Disney, and somebody said, “No, we can’t use live animals.” I also think that, perhaps under the Disney banner of Mickey Mouse, they didn’t wanna have any mice. But that also might have been a total lie, and they were just like, “No, we’re just gonna stick to the script.”
It’s such a funny moment because you’re just suddenly fully covered.
MOSS-BACHRACH: I think it was some kind of colored corn starch, or something. I don’t know. I was assured many times, by our great prop people, that it was really safe.
We’ve seen Richie with Carmy. We’ve seen a bit of Richie with Sydney. Are there any characters in Season 2 that you really got to dig into the dynamics with more?
MOSS-BACHRACH: There’s a lot of Richie and Neil. You see different sides to different relationships. I really deeply enjoyed Tina’s story this season. I think Liza [Colón-Zayas] is such a phenomenal actor, and it’s really deeply moving to see her own her desire for cooking and to be good at something and to try to change, being not a kid. With Richie, I love that we see his daughter. I was very, very happy to work with her and get to have a scene with her. I think you learn so much about somebody, from the way they are with their kids.
I love the moment when he tells her that he just needed a break from Taylor Swift’s music because he probably wouldn’t have any idea who that is, if it weren’t for his daughter. What does that bond mean to him?
MOSS-BACHRACH: Yeah, Taylor Swift features thematically, throughout the season. That line was written spontaneously, on the day, by Chris Storer. We were doing it, and we had already shot out my daughter, and it came around to my coverage. At one point, we were still rolling and he yelled out, “Just say, ‘I love you, and I love Taylor Swift, but I just needed a break.’” I’m a dad. Chris is definitely not a dad, but I thought it was such an insightful and perfect dad thing to say. I was really impressed with that little piece of writing. It says so much with so little. And she (Annabelle Toomey) is a really good actor.
There’s something very childlike about Richie, but in a way that’s also endearing. As much as I find myself wanting to shake sense into him sometimes, I also feel like he just really needs a hug. Is that something you intentionally infuse him with, or is that just how he comes across on the page?
MOSS-BACHRACH: That’s the way the character is written, combined with my interpretation of the way the character is written. He’s a volatile person with not great impulse control. He feels a lot and feels deeply and feels immediately, and is fully expressed. He doesn’t have an indoor voice, and he’s needy. He’s at a particularly needy place in his life, where he’s just looking for connection. I think a hug is definitely something that he could really use.
Probably along with a lot of therapy.
MOSS-BACHRACH: Yeah, him and all of us.
With everything changing around him, what would you say most scares Richie?
MOSS-BACHRACH: Richie is probably most scared of not being needed. He’s a lonely person. He’s lost a lot. He’s probably scared of being alone. He really doesn’t have anywhere else to go, and that’s really scary.
Did you do more or less improvisation in the second season?
MOSS-BACHRACH: Since the first season, it’s always been an environment where playing is allowed. But that said, I really don’t. In the first season, I didn’t improvise that much. And in the second season, I didn’t either. Sometimes I did try different things, but from watching the first season, they didn’t make it in. It’s nice that they allow it on the day, but then in the edit, they’re sticking to their stuff, at least for me. I feel like 95% is the words on the page, but it’s nice that it’s a safe space. If you make a mistake, it’s okay. I’ve been on shows where I’ve been scared to not get everything right. It’s freeing to not have to.
In Season 1, you had the episode that was the 20-minute one-shot. Is there something like that in Season 2? Are there things that you do push boundaries with a bit in the second season?
MOSS-BACHRACH: Yeah, they’re always looking to try things out and experiment with the form. I think that the show needed to shift a little bit and we needed to see more of these people. It needed to become a little bit more introspective and we needed to dig a little bit below the surface and see what these people are like when they’re on their own. When you get into different people’s spaces and head spaces, it shifts, tonally. It’s nice that the camera shifts, the color palette shifts, and the music changes. It’s a very malleable way of working, I think.
At the end of every year, I always write a piece that pays tribute to what I think are the best TV shows of that year, and last year, my top two series were The Bear and Andor, which you’re in both of. What did it mean to you to also be a part of Andor? Did you realize how awesome that series would be? Did you think, “Okay, this is Tony Gilroy, so it has to be good”?
MOSS-BACHRACH: I thought, “It’s Tony Gilroy, so it has to be good.” I’m not confident about much in my life, professionally, personally or artistically. I thought The Bear was really great, but I obviously no idea that it would become such a beloved thing. With Andor, I was like, “It’s Tony Gilroy, so this will be good.” I didn’t get to read it. I got to read my three episodes, and that was it. But I would do anything with that guy. I would go anywhere for him. I think he’s one of the great American filmmakers.
What most surprised you about making that series? Was there anything that you didn’t expect?
MOSS-BACHRACH: I’ll tell you two things. I was part of an ensemble of these rebels pretending to be shepherds, or space shepherds. We were doing small scenes, and it felt quite terrestrial and not genre-y. That was surprising. For something that is so indelible for me, as big mythic storytelling, for it to be so small and personal was surprising. The other thing that was surprising was that, when we were in Scotland, my hotel room was just down the hall from Tony Gilroy’s room, and he was still writing a lot, at that point. I would just hear laughter, when I’d pass by his room. I just remember him in there by himself, creating worlds, creating species of humanoids, and making names of aliens and planets, and just cracking himself up. I thought that was so awesome.
The Bear is available to stream at Hulu.
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